March 24, 2025
'Severance' Season 2 Review | Apple TV+
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This review of AppleTV+’s 'Severance' Season 2 is mysterious and important. On the menu: Cold Harbor, meeting Miss Huang, Miss Cobel’s journey, Mr. Milchik’s managerial review, Mark S. hearts Helly R., mysterious Lumon, what awaits the severed floor next season, and more!
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(00:00) - Intro
(02:53) - Would You Get Severed?
(05:03) - Severance S1 to S2 General Thoughts
(09:29) - What is Lumon?
(11:53) - New Cast & Characters
(19:57) - Mark Scout VS Mark S. & Love
(25:59) - Ms. Cobel & Milchick
(34:24) - Gemma & Helly R. & Mark
(43:45) - Dylan & Gretchen & Dylan
(47:31) - What Is This All About? Season 2 Finale Thoughts
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Transcript
Transcripts are autogenerated, accuracy will vary.
0:00
Hello Noah R, Welcome to your Wellness session.
Your Outtie loves cats.
Your Outtie enjoys doing yard work during the summer.
Your Outtie has an encyclopedic knowledge of comic books.
0:17
Your Outtie is a fantastic podcast host.
0:30
I'm Derek I, that's Noah R, and we're talking Severance season 2.
Just Season 2.
We're not talking about the Season 1 at all.
Nope, we're not even going to mention.
It we kind of missed the train for Severance Season 1.
We've been watching Severance Season 2 and we're like, why don't we just talk about the show?
0:47
Yeah, because we really, really enjoyed it.
I think that I think that when we started off, we tried watching like the first two episodes of season 1, we were kind of like, oh, it's good.
And then we're like, oh, but Season 2 is getting so much, you know, everyone's talking about it.
So then we kept watching and slightly got addicted to it.
1:05
Yeah, I am kind of happy about this because I love mystery box shows and this is a little different 1 So this is my pseudo way to make Derek watch a lost like show with me, so I'm happy.
And I'm happy that you're happy.
OK, so before we get into the discussion of Season 2, be a good Innie and follow, subscribe, review, do all those amazing things, Patreon, follow us on your social media platform of choice on your Lumen phone.
1:36
We're all there.
Everything's down below.
So you got it, You got it.
OK, you can't suffer from spoilers.
The major major major spoiler alert.
Major spoilers.
Everything that has happened in the entire series of Severance so far could and possibly will come up.
So you know, no goats about it.
1:54
There's going to be spoilers.
Star of Season 2.
OK, so let us officially take a bite of Severance Season 2 on Apple TV.
Plus, Mark S, Irving B, Dylan G and Helly R deal with the repercussions of their overtime contingency.
2:10
Mr. Milczyk takes the lead, Miss Kobell takes a road trip, and Gemma's story takes a turn.
Reintegration, Outtie wife visits Orkbo mammalians, nurturable division and awkward dinners, too.
That's Season 2.
You know, I understood the words you were saying, but in the just it's insane.
2:33
These sci-fi shows just make up words or pull from like different roots of words, and it's like, OK.
Yeah, it's like in order to deal with the repercussions of their innies outer overtime contingency, they had to go on an OTBO and BNDR had to come together.
2:51
Right, so they did before we get into, I guess the the nuts and bolts, the innies and Outtie of season 2, would you get severed?
So the whole idea right is you go to work but you're like your innie does the work and your Outtie doesn't do the work so you sever from that.
3:12
Would you do that?
I thought short and hard about this, not long and hard because it didn't take me long to come to a decision.
I would not.
I think that while the Outtie benefits from being able to dissociate from work and maybe trying to escape something that they are trying to deal with, your innie only knows work and that to me is a horrible prison to put someone in.
3:40
I think this is going to come up quite a bit in this discussion, but I assume that the Outtie isn't supposed to think that way, right?
Because you literally get severed from the entire thing.
You have no contact with them.
Lumen, the company is just like, it's fine, everything's fine.
3:57
They can lie to you, you will never know what you actually do.
I find that terrifying, more so than separating from it.
Like just not having the knowledge of like what am I doing during the day?
I don't like that.
Yeah.
I mean, in essence, your bodily form is being used by another version of you that you will never know.
4:17
I mean, I think we see that a lot with Helly R in the first season when she's trying to escape, right?
And she tries to take her own life.
She tries to draw on herself.
It's like you have no control over what's going on.
And I think that's that's just another factor of why I find it unsettling.
4:34
And the whole, the whole concept of Severance is wild because as this show goes on and as the series went on, there's more layers to it than just the basis of like, oh, I don't have to deal with work.
And then it's like, oh, are they a different person even though it's your physical body?
4:52
Because they know of things like the equator in Delaware, but don't know if it's like a building or a state or what it is.
So it's a really interesting line to play with.
And I think Season 2 did such a good job with that.
That's the one thing that I really was hoping for.
Season 1 laid the groundwork, all the terminology and set the rules for the world.
5:11
Season 2's job was to kind of shape, transform and push that, and I think it did a good job.
I agree.
And I also think that this series as a whole does a good, a really great job of pushing the boundaries of camera work, of set design and and even of story.
5:30
You know, I think just the way especially some of these season 2 episodes were shot on the severed floor were, were beautiful and super artistic.
And you know, when you see that a lot of these episodes were directed by Ben Stiller, it's kind of mind blowing 'cause you think of him as, you know, dodgeball.
5:52
You think of him as all these like super high camp comedic roles.
Yeah, Zoolander.
And so for him to, you know, take on the series and just do such beautiful work with it, and of course, the cinematography and the the costuming, it's all just so intriguing and so well done.
6:12
And I know the cinematographer, they actually got in the director's chair for episode 7, I believe in Gemma's episode episode 7.
So I to your point about the camera work, I don't think there is a show on TV where the use of what you're seeing tells the story as well as the show does.
6:34
Even if the show doesn't like nail the landing in the end with the series, I would be very surprised if this isn't going to be in the top 100 shows that you have to watch before you die just from the camera work and performances and the aesthetic alone.
6:51
And that's what's so interesting about the aesthetic, right, is that especially on the severed floor, it's simple.
It's simplistic.
I mean, it's lack of patterns, it's opaqueness, it's dryness, it's office life down to its most minimalist attributes, and yet it's still.
7:11
Compelling at any given time, you typically see when you're on the separate floor, you typically see four to five colors the entire time.
It's absolutely astounding.
I love it.
Aside from whenever you get a defiant jazz dance number, which is one of my highlights from Season 1.
7:27
I can't believe I just love it so much.
OK, so we we talked about that, right?
OK, so how did you feel in season 2 going from season 1?
It opens with that insane just maze of a run with Mark S because finding out that she's alive, right?
7:45
That cliffhanger 3 years later, we finally got the the rest of what happened.
So how did you feel about the the series or the the season as a whole?
I think that one of the things that we were lucky enough is because we were sort of late into coming into this, we didn't have to wait very long to go from the end of Season 1 to the beginning of Season 2.
8:05
So I was so anxious to find out what was going to happen next.
And I was running down those halls with him.
I wanted to discover whatever he was looking for, so I was completely in it.
Season 2 as a whole, I think was another level up, kind of like what you said before.
8:22
I think that we got to delve deeper into who these characters were both on the inside and on the outside.
And I think that was just such, that's what we wanted, right?
Where in the first season, like you had mentioned, we were learning so much just on the base level.
8:39
And now we just dug deeper into everything, into the Lumen lore that exists and just was like, I was eating it all up.
I was hungry for it.
And with season 2 we got new characters right?
8:55
And I like that not only do we learn a little literally about mythology of Lumen and this weird Kier Colts thing going on, but the cast itself expanded a little bit.
So instead of Miss Casey, we got Miss Huang, which is a literal child.
9:11
It was so unsettling every single time.
But there's the thing about Lumen is that we hear about these kids, the secret kids, and Harmony was like born into it, supposedly.
But we also know that Helly's Outtie is a just like part of the line, the Egan line.
9:29
So what do you make of like Lumen as a whole, but also apparently employing children?
Lumen is the, I think one of the biggest question marks.
Well, if it is the question mark of this show, because we first think it's some sort of business, right?
9:46
And then we're feeling their scientific research.
And then there we really learn in the first season, they talk a lot about the sort of the Eagan texts, right, that they have to read.
Those fall to the wayside a little bit.
But when we go on the Orpo, we learn about the lore and sort of the history of what they believe happened and it's feels much more religious.
10:09
It feels much more cult like.
And so with with learning Miss Kobell's back story and Miss meeting Miss Huang, it feels like there are families who are brought up in the Kiir religion.
10:25
Yeah, it's it's really fascinating just to see this like company, this mega company also have this weird cult like side to it, because one of the biggest things of this series is figuring out what do they do?
We get snippets from the outside that like they provide other services, you know, like the birthing cabins and stuff like that.
10:44
And they have like just general use medicine.
It almost is like they do everything.
So then when you have the severed part, which we get a little in Season 2 of like the unrest with that, there's protests about it and we don't really hear much of it.
When we get into it, it's like, so are they, is this like a, a facade, right?
11:06
All of the stuff that they do?
What is the actual goal of Lumen?
And this doesn't really answer it.
I think we still don't get answers for Season 2, but we find out a little bit more.
It feels like the business part is there purely to fund whatever.
11:23
I don't even know what you call the experimental floor that exists that sub basement from the black elevator.
Gemma's floor.
Gemma yeah, just awful.
But it feels like that business all exists to fund whatever this is supposed to be.
11:39
And so I think that's kind of just where we are right now.
But it all seems to serve that one purpose, whatever that greater purpose is, because we still don't really know that, right?
Yeah, so let's go with to, I guess really talk about Season 2.
Let's talk about some highs and lows for us.
11:57
I want to start with, so we have the new characters, right?
We have Missus Huang, we have Lorne, we have Gretchen who is Dylan's Outtie's wife, slash his like Annie's love interest, and then the nurse played by Sandra Bernhardt.
I feel like just the addition of these very few characters is a high for me because every single one did what they were supposed to do.
12:20
But I like because these companies, right when you you think that there's like a stormtrooper worth of minions for them to use, there's really not once you get into like the bowels of Lumen, it's like we see one nurse the entire time.
We see one bodyguard, we see one person looking at the camera.
12:36
So it's interesting to see very minimal cast with this.
I kind of like it though, because it makes it a little more isolating than having like, oh, here comes like more goons, like they can never actually escape.
So I like that.
And the high obviously, was the new cast.
12:53
Sandra Bernhardt, Come on.
Yeah, I mean, that was such a late addition to the season and it like we were it was just like, Oh my God.
Sandra Bernhardt, who again, is playing, you know, very down with this character.
And I think that she did that really well.
This character could have been all over the place, but is very much on this mission to lead Gemma through these 25 rooms or any experiences or lives or see all the questions I have, we still don't have the answers to them.
13:22
And so I really love that.
I also love seeing Gwendolyn Christie and this bizarre mammalians nurturable division.
Right.
We we got the a little bit of the goats.
Well, just one goat in season 1.
But then we see it's like sprawling hills of raising goats and like this almost like sub cult within the cult.
13:44
Of Hill people.
Of hill people, it felt almost like Midsomar.
Right, they're just Midsomar fancy.
What are your favorite?
It just felt very much like no one can know what goes on here.
Yeah, the I think Gwendolyn Christie's character was really interesting one.
14:02
It's always a pleasure to see them in anything.
I love that they were able to come back and actually like the character meant something.
But we got to find out what the goats were for.
I don't think we fully know because again, they do like medicine and testing.
14:18
So like unfortunately, I think that they might be testing out on some of those.
But we also find out that there's ritual and like sacrifices.
I'm not too sure why.
It's almost like, is that just something that the show just, it was weird, right?
Like Lost had the polar bear on an island.
14:35
Why is there goats inside of this office building?
So I'm not too sure if it's going to fully pay off or we're going to find out more of that.
This could be the last we see of the goats.
I enjoyed every single bit of it.
I don't care.
I don't need to know some of the answers to this, but having Gwendolyn Christie almost have like a Brienne of Tarth versus the Hound again, amazing.
14:57
Yeah, it was absolutely incredible.
The I think the the addition of the GOAT, especially our star Emil in this final episode of the season.
It it something is said by Mr. Drummond that when they sacrifice the goat, the goat's spirit will lead Gemma to the door to enter, cure something or other.
15:18
So there's some sort of ritualistic sacrifice that needs to happen.
Anytime that they start talking about this weird stuff about cure, you can poke holes in it because it's like, OK, what?
That's weird.
Like at the ORT boat, they were like, Oh well, he died because he, you know, came.
15:37
Yeah.
His.
Brother masturbated and then the evil forest witch with the melted face did something and it's kind of like what?
Yeah, yeah.
And then they're like, and now you don't get any marshmallows, You know, they're very strict.
15:53
They're very strict.
This, and I do want to preface this, like we're definitely going to miss some things in season 2.
It's 10 episodes, it's very long and it's very confusing.
So if we miss something that you like, particularly liked, please let us know.
Like just comment below.
Tell us what your favorite part was and those eagle eyed like screen freezers I know will have like Easter eggs or pointing to things.
16:16
They're like the witch woman actually represents the original severed person who died on the MDR floor.
She.
Was the first Test objection.
Yeah, totally.
She was in.
So in the finale when we get our new painting that Mark sees she was in that painting.
It's all part of Mark Grass's journey.
16:33
But what's weird about that is that was Irving's vision.
So how do they know about Irving's vision?
Or was it not a vision?
Was it real?
That's a very good question.
But I think she's part of the lore, right?
16:49
I think we could we could just take a step back.
And this is like all of Mark's journey.
And the thing was, was that Milchic was reading this lore to them on their Orpo, so that's why they included it.
But I think you bring up something good.
Let's talk a little bit about our boy Irving.
17:05
OK.
So would you say Irving's story arc for this is a higher low for you for the season?
I think that Irving, I'm going to say actually a low a little bit because I remember in watching the Woe's Hollow episode, which is where the OTBO took place, of trying to figure out how he figured out that Helena had actually taken Heliar's place in their group through just some of the things that she said, which he points out.
17:33
But ultimately it's a feeling that he had that maybe we weren't Privy to and then which.
So I thought this was a very much a high for Irving in this and kind of finally being brave and stepping up and questioning what was going on.
Because in Season 1, he was definitely more timid.
17:50
I felt like him and Dylan G were the were the truer followers.
Well, it was.
He very much cared about the office and the work.
Yes, exactly.
And then of course, we see things with Bert.
Bert disappears, and so that kind of throws him on the scent of something evil is going on here.
So I like that part of it.
18:07
But once he leaves MDR and the severed floor, that's where I think that his storyline kind of fell.
It yeah, the I would say midway through the season, it was almost like they push some characters aside in service of towards the finale, right.
18:23
It very much turned into like the Helly Gemma Scott or Scott Mark show, which is fine.
I think it needed really much to service that.
But where the desk conversation with heli and Mark, what I felt there, I think they wanted us to feel the same way with Burt and Irving on that train platform.
18:46
And I didn't feel that.
But I don't know if it's by the show's design because, and this kind of goes to the conversation between Mark and Mark, Mark Scout and Mark S.
But we kind of put like, we like a character, right?
And we have these preconceived notions of them and we just want Bert and Irving to get together.
19:05
But it's like it's not the same character.
It's not the same person any and outie, right?
And so we kind of put those things on them.
And then when it doesn't work out how we assume it will, it's almost like we have to be OK with that because it's not the same person.
Does that make sense?
No, it does.
19:20
But I think the interesting thing to that note is that it feels like there are certain things that transcend being severed.
Like there is still that connection.
That they used to have.
And and even if we think about Irving's character, when we first meet Outtie Irving, he's endlessly painting portraits of the elevator.
19:38
So it seems that something stay with you.
And that's why I think he was really latched onto the idea of finding Bert on the outside.
Even I yeah, I guess it would transcend even just the reintegration because he didn't go through that procedure as far as we know.
19:54
But somehow he was connected, which is I guess that is interesting.
But in the flip of that where we get in the finale with Mark S and Mark Scout, where they finally have that conversation, which I think the whole setup for that was amazing.
Like the inside's red, the outside's blue.
You have to go through the doorway to switch between the two.
20:12
I think it's interesting that Mark Scout the Outtie has these like didn't even care to get to know his innie thinks that they're less like what their love and their like of a person is less than what they have.
Is so interesting.
20:27
So it's like the Irving for me, I think midway through was a high and then it almost went to a low and I don't know if we're ever going to see him again.
But then when we get to this kind of complicated Indian versus Outtie with Mark, that's a high for me.
Just this, even just particularly the scene I thought was so well done.
20:46
Yeah, I think that scene was was really wild, especially for the the work that Adam Scott had to do of switching from one version to another version.
And you know that part that you said about Mark Scout believing that Mark S is less than him, It almost feels like a parent child relationship in that aspect of like, I'm your parent, I brought you into this world, you wouldn't exist without me.
21:14
You have to listen to what I say.
But, you know, they're full grown adults and that Mark Scout, really, besides the tiny reintegration flashes that he gets, doesn't really know what Mark S is going through.
When he granted, there's like some lumen protocols, right, And he wouldn't ever be able to fully know him and he's not supposed to.
21:34
I, I think just even the language that he used because because he gets, I think he gets Hella's helly's name wrong initially when he says it and he says like, Oh, I heard you like somebody.
It's like, no, he loves Heli, you know, so he already demeans like his feelings towards that person.
21:49
And then his response to that was like, OK, so picture what you have, but like, it's a million times bigger.
It's a million times more important than what you have.
So like his last ditch effort to get him his any self to work with his Outtie self was there was no understanding there.
22:08
And so that almost goes back to what I was saying of like, we like these two characters and we think that when they finally meet that they'll work together.
And what I like that the show does is that, Oh no, it's like Mark S is a person that has likes and dreams and wants.
22:26
So does Scout.
So do I help the Outtie and kill myself?
It's it's just so good.
But it's also very like wait, it's so confusing.
Yeah, And, you know, it feels like what Mark Scout is is fighting for is obviously to find his wife that he thought was gone.
22:43
It's a much deeper, longer love and sadness that exists that he wants to upend.
Whereas for Mark S, think of your first love that you ever had that that freshness, that all-encompassing feeling of I found a person and I love them.
23:01
And it's like that honeymoon stage times a million.
And so they're experiencing two different types of love, but not obviously willing to sacrifice that love for the other one.
So yeah, it's funny watching it because I think with Episode 7 really learning about what Gemma had gone through, how she sort of came over somehow to Lumen, right, by receiving the cards and taking the tests.
23:30
We don't know how they actually got her, but.
Like, was there even a car accident?
Right.
Exactly.
Or did she, because she was so depressed, she wanted to give herself to something higher.
She went over to them willingly.
So that's.
A is a terrible thing. 100% and you know when with us being rude in that episode and seeing what Gemma goes through every day at Lumen, it was really heartbreaking.
23:55
So as a viewer I'm rooting for Mark Scout because I want him to save her.
I know their back story and although I've seen literally Mark S and Heli Rs relationship from the beginning, it just doesn't feel to me as a viewer to have that really intense intensity.
24:14
I see.
I think that's where it's interesting and I, I, the creators and writers and everybody knows that we're going to think that.
So then we're put into the same position of like, why are we going to assume who deserves to fully like have their honeymoon, right?
24:32
Have their honeymoon ending and stuff like that?
It's like, yeah, Mark, Mark Scout did this because he lost Gemma.
He got severed.
He wanted to do this.
Turns out the company that he went to was the one that has her in the 1st place.
But then we see Heli and Mark S and it's like we want them to meet at the equator.
24:49
We want them to do what they're supposed to do because even Helly's Outtie seems like she wants it.
What was it like four or five episodes where she was her Outtie in there and it didn't seem like she was struggling to fit in, like she was full into it.
25:06
So I'm curious if that has to do with like her father or what she actually wants.
There's a lot of different weird levels going on, and it's hard to, like, root for one over the other because Miss Kobell had to come in and be like, look, Marcus, like.
Either way, you're done.
Like so you could help Scout, Mark Scout.
25:25
You can either help him and make your life mean something, or because Lumen's going to end it.
Like once Cold Harbour's done, you're out.
Of.
Here, which I think is needed, but freaking Kobell had to do it, yeah.
Yeah, she's she's kind of ruthless.
So then the the mark stuff and Gemma and like helly huge high.
25:45
I love that this huge weird cold T sci-fi thriller show has like relationships and love at the center of it.
What about love?
Yes, it must have been love.
And I'm like, it must have been.
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
Speaking of Miss Kobell, what did you think of her storyline in Season 2?
26:05
I thought it was absolutely hilarious that when she saw Helena outside and then she drove off in her car and we didn't see her for episodes.
She's still driving.
She's.
Just driving.
Yeah, Forever.
Good.
I think it's fine.
I think she's complicated.
26:21
I want to know more.
With these kind of shows, It's it's hard, right?
Because it's like I'm compelled by the character.
Patricia Arquette is doing an absolutely amazing job.
There's some weird decisions and I think there's like easy overcome hurdles that happened, especially in the finale, like Devin, are you serious?
26:43
Like you're just automatically trusting Cobell?
And I did like though, in the finale that a lot of people are like, are we going to trust her?
Like are wait, we're just going to do what she says.
So I'm glad that there is some awareness of that.
I don't know.
I don't know what to think of her.
I like it.
26:58
I'm captivated by her.
It's.
Interesting because in season 1 I feel like we were.
We were taught to fear Miss Cobell.
We were taught to not trust her, which I think still lends itself over to this, but she was such a cure maniac.
27:14
Well, I think that's what's weird for me.
Like I'm not sure like this the hard switch is warranted for me.
It's like, OK, you got out of your job.
I guess your devotion was questioned but for her to like hard switch like want to take lumen down, I'm like oh OK.
27:29
Right.
And that's that's really where my question is about this whole thing is that obviously she was fired.
And so she was hurt by that.
She devoted her life to them.
We also learned that she was the one that kind of originally came up with the plans for being severed.
And it was all taken from her in this in this cult, for lack of a better term that she grew up in.
27:50
And then, but she was such a devotee, you know, she was so ingrained in the culture.
And now she's like, all right, Mark.
Well I mean again, I'm the jury could still be out right?
She could be doing something for her own reasons, which I think she is.
28:07
Does she want Lumen to burn?
Maybe.
Or does she want to run it?
Possibly.
But I am happy though that she went away because Milkshake got more screen time.
That's right.
Oh boy.
Milkshake.
Yeah, which is like always a high for me.
Completely always milkshake is a high.
28:23
I would say Cobell was like middle for me this whole season.
Getting to see him like quietly seethe but also be completely terrifying.
And I don't know, being a leading a marching band, it's just the range this man has.
28:41
I can't help but just be amazed every time.
Yeah, he this season was really interesting for Mr. Milczyk because he wasn't second in command anymore.
And I think that he really does feel like he has some big shoes to fill and in some areas is overcompensating in what he's doing.
29:00
It's almost like, like, when are you have a really terrible boss?
And then one day they're like, I brought doughnuts.
You know, you're like, oh, God, no, thanks, weirdo.
But then you kind of feel like, I guess I should have a doughnut.
So I, I think, you know, Tramel Tillman really plays that well of behind the scenes.
29:22
I even think in some ways questioning what's going on with Lumen.
He's really trying his best.
He can't control these people.
But they are not responding to that, especially in his performance review with Mr. Drummond.
You know he.
Which can I just say is insane.
29:38
The the intensity of that performance review is absolutely not.
I'd be like, you know what?
I'm done.
I don't I don't want to read a book like y'all made a book about this.
This too much?
About like how terribly I'm doing even though I'm trying my darndest.
29:55
Did you see my dancing?
You're doing a really great job.
But, you know, I think there's some interesting that happened, interesting things that happened here for Mr. Milchuk, where, you know, he's gifted a series of paintings where they basically make the main character and like, they make Kier black.
30:18
And he's like, how am I supposed to feel about this?
What are you trying to say to me?
So I think Milchic is also questioning some things that are going on here.
Well, do you think that Milchic is actually severed?
I don't.
No, I do because I just thinking I didn't until Gemma's story.
30:40
You know, Gemma, the whole thing, right?
The the files that Mark has been doing all 24 up until this .25 is literally different variants, different personalities of Gemma.
That's what he's making, which is but that just shows the almost extent that they can do.
30:56
Like we don't know how far this severed process goes or what they can control.
This whole town is made-up.
Is it possible that this entire place is made-up, right?
Like there's different levels of it.
So even outside people can be severed.
I don't know.
31:12
He's interesting because he shows moments of defiance, which is almost like Irving getting glimpses of what's happening in the Northeast, but he still goes along with it.
So I don't know.
I don't know what to think of it.
I, I'm keeping my eye out because it would be interesting if he was severed.
31:28
And then what does that look like?
And then why would they sever him to that extent?
Yeah.
Is it all just that overtime contingency thing where he can go out and about?
But really, there's another milkshake that exists.
I think, you know, in in the finale of season 2, when he's trying to get out of the bathroom, when he's trapped behind the vending machine, he has this moment where he really looks at himself in the mirror.
31:50
And I'm really interested in what he's thinking.
Like, is this what I'm supposed to be doing?
Like, is this what I've come to like I've done, I've tried to do such a good job and they're locking me in the bathroom.
Yeah, and I'm putting myself out for a company that doesn't really respect me in any way.
32:09
You know, we see this obviously in the performance review.
We even see this in this bizarre animatronic award show thing that happened.
It was like a late night monologue with a weird animatronic dead person.
I hated it.
It was so unsettling.
32:25
It it worked for me, didn't work for me.
I think he worked for me, Milcheck.
But the animatronic thing I was like OK, this is enough.
Yeah, yeah, it was.
It was really creepy, especially because he was mean.
But I do, I do want to say the funniest part of this entire season 2 for me was when Milcheck welcomes Dylan back because Dylan wanted to like, suffer because of Gretchen and everything, or not suffer but quit.
32:49
He welcomes him back.
And this man is running this entire floor by himself.
He literally just takes off.
And that was so funny to me.
He's just like, I got things to do.
He's like.
Listen, welcome back.
I have to go lead the marching band.
I have to do the opening monologue.
I have to perform.
33:04
I have to dance.
There's a lot happening.
I don't have time for this, Dylan.
And I don't need to question why Lumen has a marching band.
I'd love it.
Who cares?
Well, I think they love a little pomp and circumstance, don't you?
Any time to break out the melon, any time to have a little bit of a viewing of something, they'll take the opportunity.
33:21
Like who is carving these melons?
They they got goat sacrificing over here, they got melon carving over here.
They have a whole marching band practice.
It's.
Insane yeah, we're learning a lot about Kier and what they value I.
33:36
Don't think Kier is real.
Interesting.
I think it's.
All fucking fake.
I think it's all fake.
All.
Fake.
So OK, let's let's reel it back.
OK, so mail check.
Hi, I think for both of us completely Cobell middle.
OK, let's get to do you want to get to like the last episode really and like the heistiness of it, because I think a lot of questions almost could answer but don't and it leads us into a direction, right.
34:06
So the task was that severed floor, Mark S has to get down to Gemma, then Mark Scout would get her back up, and then Mark S has to get her out.
Love it.
Oh, I love a heist especially.
Same person, different personality.
34:22
Amazing.
What did you make of this entire thing?
What did you make of what Lumen's trying to do with Gemma?
Why did they want 25 different versions of her?
Because it seems like they're almost the goal is to make them what, like not respond to pain at all.
34:40
It's, it seems like, you know, in the, in the final room in Cold Harbor, right.
And what we learned of Gemma's back story is that they struggle with infertility, right?
And so her entering the room and seeing that crib, if it was Outtie, Gemma would have brought up emotions of all of her past pain.
35:01
So it does seem to be something of, can you compartmentalize your life in order to escape the things that once were so devastating to you?
It's very sort of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, but in a different way, right?
And so they're so happy to task her with taking this crib apart and her just following orders of this voice.
35:23
Which was interesting because it's she was doing it right.
And this is her first experience as this Gemma and she's taking it apart.
But the second that she sees Mark, she goes with him.
And I don't know if that's just like newborn ignorance, right?
35:39
Like, what is this person supposed to know?
They don't know.
Like, OK, I'm going to follow this bloody man because they're they're telling me to.
Do you think there was some recognition?
They're like, even though there's been 25 different versions of her to like, cut out that pain, do you think that she still knew?
35:58
It must have been love.
Hello, It's all about love, you know, thought all about love.
But I think that that is something that they can't seem to stop.
And why do they want to do that though?
That's the that's a great question.
Is it If they sever people they will have them unwillingly following all of their orders to do whatever they want?
36:20
Like to ascend, to cure, Is it to just completely be unfazed by pain?
You're yeah, you're a full lumen zombie.
Because there was that weird Jame, what's his name?
Jame Egan Jamie.
I don't know.
36:35
He freaks me out.
His eyebrows are disgusting, but like I don't know his weird like vampire speech to to Helly R was like he he saw the fire or whatever of Kier in Helena, the Outtie.
36:52
That's her name, right?
Helena.
OK, I keep thinking it's not, but it is.
And then but he sees it now and Helly R.
So if the goal is to like, not have pain, what is he not seeing in Helena that he's now seeing in Heli?
37:09
You know, So I'm just trying to figure out like, what these people want.
And it's very confusing.
It's just a bunch of men watching women suffer on cameras.
Like that's all the show is.
White people.
Hello.
Yeah, I think, yeah.
37:25
You know, we.
Sorry, I kind of segwayed from them but.
But but the the final interaction we see between Helena and her father is that really bizarre hard boiled egg eating scene.
I love a hard boiled egg, Mama.
I am not taking just a little fork full of an egg white.
37:41
No, that's OK.
Yeah, not good.
But I think that the fire he sees in Heli R is what he wishes Helena had, I feel like.
So weird.
It's it's very weird.
So I don't know what that means for Helly R Is he going to make Helly R his daughter now and not?
37:58
She should have stabbed him.
She really should have like.
Freaking creepy.
I love that when she looked at him she went What the fuck?
And in that scene of him watching Gemma take the crib apart, he's just like, I mean it.
It almost feels like he's getting sexual pleasure.
38:15
Out of it, the guy that is no the the other guy that's watching with the that was the dentist and everything that dude is disgusting.
He freaks me out.
It looks it's like he's obsessed with Gemma where the father is just like overseeing it and making sure it's happening.
But.
He was like.
38:31
Well, yeah, he's disgusting.
The this season very much like upped the uncomfortability, it upped the seriousness and it was much darker than season 1, which.
I loved it, yeah.
I appreciated it, but the entire just like Mark S finally reuniting with Gemma when she comes when she goes through that threshold of the door and becomes his Gemma.
38:55
I mean, it just made him having or he just made Mark S separating from that Gemma even more heartbreaking.
Do you think that the decision for Mark S he got Gemma out?
Do you think in his mind he's like, I did what was asked of me Now, even if this is we're going to die, meaning Lumen I, I, I don't know what they think dying means for like separate people, like spend as much time with her as I can.
39:25
Do you think that that's what his thinking is?
Because he leaves Gemma like she is out, but he leaves her.
Yeah, I think you, I think that's a really good point for Mark S is it almost seems like the deal wasn't to get Gemma out and then leave with her.
39:42
I think the deal was get Gemma out and he's like, well I did that, so now I get to like have my love.
The possibility is Mark Scout doesn't get to be with her, but Gemma is alive and yes, could go with Cobell and Devin.
Yes, exactly.
Well, by the way, another standout character of season 2 was Devin, who I really loved.
40:01
I just think that she's so strong, I.
Loved her until the last episode.
She made some stupid decisions, but she just called Cobell without being like even the doctor was like, if you call her, I'm out and she's like, I'm going to call her anyway.
It's like, Devin, she lied to you.
40:18
She was a lactation consultant for you, which is gross.
I don't know, like she made some weird decisions.
It's not the character's fault.
It's the writer's fault, but Devin.
Well, I think for Devin, seeing her brother almost dying on a couch and this random person that she's never met before Who has done this to him in some regard makes her feel like she can only run to the only other person she knows because her husband's the worst now.
40:42
Like we always thought he was the worst, but now he's even worse than the worst 'cause he's a lumen freaking pawn.
Where'd he go?
He's just write, rewriting his book with Natalie.
That's true.
Anyway, sorry, got sidetracked, but I think for Mark S, it's really just to just be with his love for as long as he possibly can.
41:03
I mean, because they're still in the building, right?
There is a possibility to though that like, I mean, I think we could have a whole conversation on like what death means for these severed people, but I he's still in there.
So I'm curious if he's going to try to still burn loom into the ground or somehow try to get them out because he doesn't believe reintegration, which I thought was interesting conversation during that.
41:29
Like Mark Scout didn't really question it, he just did it.
Mark S was like, wait, do we know that this works?
Is that how it works?
Like we will be 1?
I don't know if this is how that works.
Yeah, it felt like Mark Scout was kind of just at straws totally.
41:44
Or just throwing shit into the pile to try and make Mark S believe that he was still going to exist.
Because I have to admit, the whole reintegration plot point didn't really result in much in my mind other than having Devin finally call Miss Cobell and getting him to the birthing retreat.
42:06
I I guess we'll find out in Season 3.
It does seem like it's like it started.
So like, what does that mean?
Because I know they said that they'll remove the chip from Gemma and then she'll be dead.
Is the process of doing that going to kill her or I don't know.
It's very interesting, Yeah.
42:23
Lots of questions.
I think the entire just ending of like Mark S and Heli running with those lights from red to white.
It's just, I mean, how can you not?
It was bookended.
It had Mark running by himself in the beginning.
Now he's with Heli at the end, running through those same halls.
42:41
And it and it's such an interesting visual because you have Gemma behind the door screaming for him, and yet Helly R and Mark are like, it's like slow motion running through a field being so happy.
And Gemma's like Mark.
Do you what do you make of the look that Helly R gave Gemma?
42:58
Do you find it of like a fuck you I got your man or is it more of like AI mean I can't like he choose she chose me or was it just like that's how her face looks?
I think that it was a moment of actual disbelief that he was running towards her, meaning helly R and not to Gemma.
43:23
I did see a panel discussion where Britt, I'm I'm blanking on her name.
I apologize.
Britt lower.
Yeah, she said that something along the lines of I think in that moment of finally seeing Gemma, Helly R fell in love with her and the crowd was like.
43:44
I would love that though.
I mean, we didn't get the throuple fantasy that I wanted.
Between Dilly, Innie and Outtie and Gretchen, there's the the case is still out there.
We'll never know.
Dylan is a hero inside and out.
Just by the way, I love Merritt Weaver chef's kiss to her performance in this.
44:01
I just she ever since she was on Nurse Jackie, she just kind of lights up my life.
If you've if you've never watched her Emmy acceptance speech for Nurse Jackie, it's brilliant.
Go watch it.
Don't watch her on The Walking Dead, she dies a terrible death.
Whoopsies.
Well, there you go.
44:18
She got range.
She sure do.
She sure do.
Yeah, I I know that some people were theorizing like, oh, was actually Helena and not Helly I I think it's been confirmed and I'm pretty sure it's helly R in this.
I do I I can see why people would make that thread because one she left Dylan with milk check, right, But then she was like up on the desk talking about resistance, but then she was like talking to Mark about like, oh, it's fine.
44:48
Go like you should the shoes like convincing herself to convince him to like go to Gemma and leave her.
So there's a lot of weird, like I see why people might think it's Helena.
I did at some point, but I I think it's Helly RI.
Mean it would be interesting.
45:04
Did Helena fall in love with Mark S?
Oh, I think so.
So I mean, that's really interesting.
And maybe that's what's dulled her fire, is that she's fallen for an innie while she's an outie.
You know, because we see that sort of mirrored in Gretchen and Dylan on the Dylan, the innie Dylan.
45:25
So it can happen.
I do like that that letter.
We've almost had every single innie and Outtie talk to each other in some type of way except for Irving, which is kind of sad.
But I did like in a high for me for Dylan was that he was able to accept his innie and almost be comforted by like, OK, if she was going to fall in love with somebody else.
45:46
I'm glad it's you.
Like it's oddly comforting.
I like that I.
I liked it as well and I just and I think that there's another discussion here about what is your innie right for Dylan his.
Sorry, I didn't mean to laugh, it's just like a weird thing to say.
46:03
Belly buttons.
Your innie almost seems like maybe a part of you that you could never be on the outside.
'Cause it's like unmasked and.
The thing that Dylan says to him, it's like all kind of along the lines of like you're kind of all the things I wish I was.
You're kind of a badass.
46:20
And it brings me solace knowing that you're in there being strong and determined and just all around cooler than me right away, you know, So you know, while Outtie Dylan struggle has struggled to hold a job, any Dylan really excels at lumen.
46:38
So what does it mean?
What is your?
What is your innie to your versus who you are on the outside?
I guess we'll never find out, yeah.
It's almost like who you are without all of your lifetime of traumas that have shaped you.
46:53
Yeah, because I guess they don't really know about, like they don't mention the terrible things that happened to them.
They're just kind of like I'm at work.
They don't even know that they have a wife for children, right?
Or things like that.
So it's like.
It's so interesting though that they know being severed, they know that they're severed, they know there's an Innie and Outtie.
47:11
So it's like there's not really secrecy there.
So it's weird that they just accept that.
It's like, this is my life, this is all I know, and there's no way to not know it.
So I think Heli R says something.
They give us half a life and expect us not to fight for it, which is like a banger of a line.
47:29
But I think this is what this story is about.
OK, So what if Lumen and Keir, although it's all very sort of seemingly evil and secretive, is really working towards a path to give us all a tabula rasa of who we could have been without the real world taking us down?
47:51
But see, they're going about it in a really shitty way.
So like, it doesn't make me.
I'm with you 100%.
I'm completely with you.
I mean, I guess what, like our people that are at Lumen are like the goats that they're just testing this on and it doesn't matter.
It it does beg the question of though, of like, why is Mark so important?
48:09
Is it because of Gemma?
Because she was almost the perfect candidate for that because she had a perfect marriage.
She lost a child getting that pain.
How do you get that out?
I don't know where they landed on like 25 is supposed to be the number.
Maybe it's the most they've ever done.
So then how do these other people fall into it?
48:27
Were they just fillers?
Oh, that's interesting.
Here's another question of like, what?
Why would they Do you know what I mean?
That's it.
That's it.
Like so Gemma is there as like their number one lab rat and then they hire her husband to do the work to do the experiments on her.
48:49
Like what is that?
'Cause they're scary numbers, right?
But I think however these numbers work and he was building her personalities, he's the only one that could do it.
So like, that makes sense.
It's still fucked up, man.
It's real messed up.
I don't like it.
49:05
I don't like it either.
I.
Fucking love the show though.
God I want more if it if we have to wait three more years.
I'm I'm I I I kids suffered me sever me until it comes back.
So now he's a fan, now he wants to be severed?
Yep.
Wow, interesting.
Have fun with my Annie because even though I'm outie.
49:23
So look here.
OK, here's another thing that I think Lumen could just do, OK?
Like, why not make a resort just like that birthing place, right?
You go to the resort and guess what?
You could be with your innies who are in love, can be with each other there, so you could still see each other.
49:40
So even when you stop working at Lumen, you get to still be severed.
And let them be a nice though.
Well, they should be, yeah.
They don't want to be saying.
I know.
We have so many questions.
We still don't really know what their end goal is.
49:56
We know why, why Gemma was there.
We know Mark's story, we know some of these things, right?
I think the show is doing such a good job of giving us enough answers that actually mean something and almost organically, as opposed to like, you know, most of the time in shows like this, the mystery, the answer to the mystery is always a person.
50:15
They're doing that.
But it's like the Mac Guffin, it was Gemma, right?
So I like what they're doing here.
I'm very much locked in and I can't wait for Season 3.
What do you have any predictions for season 3?
I So what what do we think?
50:32
What do we think of it's going to be it's going to be Gemma, Devon, Devon's baby and Cobell trying to get the innies out.
But I guess what does that mean?
Like do they want to kill Helena and just have heli RB out?
50:52
And then what happens to Mark S if they try to get him out?
You know, like, I think they want to take it down, but what does that mean?
I think now we're at like a moral dilemma of like, one of them is going to have to die, right?
And also what is the work now right.
51:09
The work of MDR was the macro data refinement.
Well, I think Cobell had said it like once Cold Harbor is complete, you guys are done.
That's it.
Unless they do to Helly R and Mark S what they were doing to Gemma.
Use them as Lab Rats now.
51:26
And that still leads the Gemma Devon Misko Bell search party to try and break in again.
I'm just very excited to get more Gemma.
I'm very excited to see where this goes.
I don't know.
I think that's what's fun about these types of shows is that I don't have any fucking idea.
51:44
I just can't wait.
They could do anything.
I don't know.
Yeah, I agree, I need more Deitch and Lachman.
You I don't need yes, I don't need more.
You know those bolt guns into throats, I don't need that.
I thought it was hilarious that when he was severing that he was like I.
52:04
Know that was pretty great.
It's fucked up, but very good, very effective.
I don't know.
What do you, what do you hope for Season 3?
What do you, what do you predict?
Do you think that Milkcheck is going to make it?
Milkcheck is going to make it, I think.
The question is who will Milcheck become?
Will he delve deeper into the luminosity or will he become a Cobell?
52:24
I don't think he will.
I think he's on the verge of maybe not going through with everything Lumen does, but I don't know what that means.
And again, he could be severed, I don't know.
I'm going to miss Miss Wong.
Oh, me too.
Her fellowship is over.
52:39
He made her smash her little toy.
That was so mean.
She'll be back.
She'd better be.
I have a feeling she can be back.
She went on that Lumen school bus, never to be seen again.
She is the she is the most unsettling 15 year old I've ever seen.
Phenomenal.
So good.
So good.
52:55
Whenever Gretchen and Dylan were talking, she's like, no personal details.
She's so good.
So, so good.
Very good.
So I would say lots of highs in this.
There's really hardly any lows.
Let us know what your highs and lows for season 2 were or the series so.
53:11
Far any theories that you have, things that we didn't talk about, that you really loved or hated comment?
Below OK, till next time, maybe you'll see your Innie or an Outtie.
Have fun.
Bye.
